Curse

Flightmare · Aug 19, 2008, 07:31 PM // 19:31

And ironically you will get only 25% of the +energy on focii if you don't reach the requirement, but shields will give you 50% of the armor rate if you don't reach the requirement.

Bryant Again · Aug 19, 2008, 07:37 PM // 19:37

Hard to tell. I *would* say that the weapons have requirements so you can't use one at the get-go, but if that were true then they would've done the same for armors.

IlikeGW · Aug 19, 2008, 07:44 PM // 19:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Parson Brown

But, why do max weapons have to come req. 9-13?

To add more farming to the game.

sixofone · Aug 19, 2008, 07:46 PM // 19:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by IlikeGW

To add more farming to the game.

Seriously!

But, since experience doesn't mean anything, you have to have something to achieve/acquire!

Enar. · Aug 19, 2008, 07:50 PM // 19:50

if there would be no requirements then you would see a lot Monk warriors with max damage weapons and with healing attributes. Damage + healing ??? profit.

Bryant Again · Aug 19, 2008, 07:55 PM // 19:55

Damage lies less in the actual output of the weapon and more in the skills.

Rhamia Darigaz · Aug 19, 2008, 08:05 PM // 20:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enar.

if there would be no requirements then you would see a lot Monk warriors with max damage weapons and with healing attributes. Damage + healing ??? profit.

no. even if a max domage weapon had no requirement, with little to no attributes in the weapon's attribute line you'd still be doing shit damage. instead of 35% of 2-3 you'd be doing 35% of 15-22.

MithranArkanere · Aug 19, 2008, 08:14 PM // 20:14

For the same reason PvE characters start at level 1.

Sigma Onkoron · Aug 19, 2008, 08:45 PM // 20:45

Another gold sink. It helps the economy alot. When new weapons come out. There is a huge gold sink. Along with players paying +500e for something you can get the r13 for half the price at the same skin. Its so players can get the "cool things" but not pay as much.

Savio · Aug 19, 2008, 08:55 PM // 20:55

Gold sinks remove gold from the economy. Players giving other players gold is not a gold sink.

TheodenKing · Aug 19, 2008, 09:10 PM // 21:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kusandaa

However, AFAIK, at 16 sword mastery, with a req13 weapon, you'll do the same damage than with a req9 weapon. Thus to me, req isn't worth too much.

That is incorrect. The higher above the req of the weapon you are, the higher the % of damage you will do. Lower req is better. Read the following again:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

...once you meet that requirement, a second damage calculation is done. The higher your attribute, the more damage you'll do. You need 12 points in your weapon's attribute to do the listed damage. Further points above 12 still increase your damage, though less drastically. At 16 weapon mastery, you'll deal 115% of the listed damage.

If you're only putting 9 points in your weapon just to meet the req, you're only doing 77% of the listed damage, your 15-22 damage sword is dealing 11.5-17. You should always be placing the maximum number of points in your weapon.

tyrant rex · Aug 19, 2008, 09:16 PM // 21:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheodenKing

That is incorrect. The higher above the req of the weapon you are, the higher the % of damage you will do. Lower req is better. Read the following again:

? the damage you deal depends on your attributes not the difference between the req of the weapon and your attribute

Yawgmoth · Aug 19, 2008, 11:41 PM // 23:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by OP

But, why do max weapons have to come req. 9-13?

So people can make up stupid theories about higher damage ranges based on differences between your attribute and the req, or abour better critical chances...
Less stupid theories = more boring game, right?

BlueNovember · Aug 20, 2008, 12:55 AM // 00:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheodenKing

That is incorrect. The higher above the req of the weapon you are, the higher the % of damage you will do. Lower req is better. Read the following again:

...
There should be a login-screen announcement to dispel this myth.
There's no difference between an r9 and an r13 weapon once you're at 13 or above mastery, which you pretty much always should be!

Dr Strangelove · Aug 20, 2008, 01:06 AM // 01:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheodenKing

That is incorrect. The higher above the req of the weapon you are, the higher the % of damage you will do. Lower req is better. Read the following again:

That's not what I said at all.

Here's a neat flowchart.

1) Does character meet weapon requirement? If yes, weapon damage = listed damage, if no, weapon damage = minimum.

2) What is character's damage modifier from their attribute? Use this chart:
Effect of Attributes on Weapon Damage Attribute Level
Percent dmg relative to 0 rank Percent dmg relative to 12 rank
0 100% 35.6%
1 109% 38.6%
2 119% 42.0%
3 130% 45.9%
4 141% 50.0%
5 154% 54.5%
6 168% 59.5%
7 183% 64.8%
8 200% 70.7%
9 218% 77.1%
10 238% 84.1%
11 259% 91.7%
12 283% 100%
13 293% 104%
14 303% 107%
15 314% 111%
16 325% 115%

3) Final damage = Weapon damage from 1 * multiplier from 2.

This doesn't account for crits, customization, weapon damage mods, or skill use because I don't feel like typing.

Crom The Pale · Aug 20, 2008, 01:13 AM // 01:13

The requirements are meant to be another means of limiting builds.

The major flaw with that is the weakness of skills that warriors can use that are not tied to thier weapons.

Picture a war running 7 swords so he can dump points into fire magic, the result is a war that does very weak damage with sword and very weak damage with fire magic....

If you delt maximum damge simply by meeting the requirement of the weapon then you could create some insane builds with low require max weapons.
Since damage is tied to Attribute then the weapon requirements really do make no sense what so ever.

NOTE*

I think a better way to explain weapon requirements and damage is this.

Requirements effect the weapon only.
Attribute effect the damage only.

example. Sword with Req 9 max damage 15-22. If you do not meet that requirement the sword stats drop to 6-11. Now your attribute will determine what damage you can deal with this weapon so at 8 swordsmanship your dealing with a 6-11 weapon multiplied by 0.71 (attribute damage percentage for 8 mastery)

Martin Alvito · Aug 20, 2008, 03:51 PM // 15:51

This one's pretty simple:

Minimum attribute requirements exist to prevent characters from gaining the full benefit from items not linked to their profession. Monks that don't have a decent Swordsmanship skill shouldn't be able to deal damage to players or endgame monsters with swords. Nor should they be able to derive the full benefit from shields without investment in Tactics or a Paragon line.

Varying attribute requirements exist as a means of creating scarcity (and thus value) whike limiting the number of items in existence whose functionality duplicates or exceeds that of PvP character content. If every weapon dropped req 9, they would have little value. Without scarcity, there is little reason to continue to play PvE after finishing a campaign, as you would acquire everything you want or need swiftly. That would be a problem for ANet from a customer retention standpoint.

At the same time, ANet has always wanted PvP characters to not be disadvantaged relative to PvE characters. At times they have failed at this (hat swap, HoD sword/helm, unconditional damage mods), but generally PvP characters stand at little to no inherent disadvantage.

Upshot: cool stuff is hard to get but confers little inherent advantage - exactly what ANet wants.

Skyy High · Aug 20, 2008, 09:26 PM // 21:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheodenKing

That is incorrect. The higher above the req of the weapon you are, the higher the % of damage you will do. Lower req is better.

You fail reading comprehension.

If you don't believe us, go grab two max swords with identical stats and different reqs (white modless merc fodder will work) and go to the Isle of the Nameless. Put your swordsmanship at 16 (or any other att that meets the req for both weapons) and use wild blow on a dummy. The damage will be exactly the same for both weps.

IllusiveMind · Aug 20, 2008, 09:55 PM // 21:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

You fail reading comprehension.

If you don't believe us, go grab two max swords with identical stats and different reqs (white modless merc fodder will work) and go to the Isle of the Nameless. Put your swordsmanship at 16 (or any other att that meets the req for both weapons) and use wild blow on a dummy. The damage will be exactly the same for both weps.

Seconded. This is very true and it has been discussed so many times.

BenjZee · Aug 20, 2008, 11:19 PM // 23:19

i always thought people preffered a req9 than req13 so they don't have to use extra runes or attribute points. therefore they can put the attributes into other things.